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Post by Frank on Apr 26, 2008 21:49:18 GMT -5
American Idol
Posted Thu Apr 24 12:32pm PDT by Bob Lefsetz in The Lefsetz Letter
I saw Paul Stanley in the audience of American Idol.
What can I say, Felice is addicted, I heard the rumble from afar and when I went to retrieve her from the bedroom, I got hooked by the show too. I guess it's just instinct, we're all judges, we want to evaluate talent...and just maybe we want to be a member of the club. American Idol has the highest ratings of any weekly series, it's the most talked about show, its stars go on to have hit records...
Well, not so much anymore. Sure, Kelly Clarkson had some hits, but she was the first. And "Since U Been Gone" was a product of the Max Martin machine. Carrie Underwood is a star in the country world, she's the beneficiary of the best material in Nash Vegas...
Wait a minute here... Is this two-dimensional stardom, are these performers no more than cardboard?
The classic rockers were built on their own material. There were no song doctors. It was directly from their heart to yours. And this has delivered audiences in some cases 40 years after their debut. If you're just singing someone else's song, you're driving the BMW. Someone else can get inside and take the wheel instantly. Which is what happens in the evanescent pop world. Everybody today may not be a one hit wonder, but few have more than two or three hit tracks, and almost none of these acts can do respectable live business.
And we learned that TV exposure shortens careers. That was the lesson of MTV. If you're on, you're in everybody's household for a brief window, then you're discarded like a candy wrapper, the chocolate having been savored for an instant and then forgotten.
And what about the runners-up?
Sure, Daughtry has had hits. Interesting that he's a rocker, when so many of the winners are diva-wannabes... But can you name the other contestants who almost won? How about some of those who DID win, like Fantasia and Ruben Studdard?
It's a house of cards. A TV show. And TV is the number one mass medium in the history of the world. It can sell anything. Just ask Procter & Gamble. But even TV is faltering, in this permission marketing, multi-channel, Internet world. In other words, are we just mesmerized that ANYTHING can get this many eyeballs, this much traction in today's diverse cultural landscape?
It's not like these are artists. Hell, Carly Hennessy/Smithson already failed once. These are voices, doing the best karaoke job of all time. And in many cases, not that good.
Carly Smithson murdered "Superstar" on Tuesday night. I remember when I heard the original on the radio in the spring of 1970, before Webber and Rice went all Broadway on us, when they still employed rock singers and had credibility. The track was joyous, infectious. Carly evidenced none of these attractions. There was no CONTEXT!
Simon is a star. You just wait to hear what he says. Paula rivets you because you're waiting to see if she implodes on camera. Randy is sacrificing what credibility he had for a paycheck.
But it's not like Paula and Randy can have any success off this show. No one cares. It's just about the show.
Simon's smart enough to know it's not about his fame, it's about the dough. That TV delivers momentary record sales, that he can profit from.
Is this the game you're in? Earning a golden ticket to instant fame that will be taken away from you on your way to the 7-11, transforming you from a customer to an employee?
If you want to have a long career, write your own material. Be different, not the same. And don't go on television, it will shorten your tenure.
If you can't write, if you've got nothing to say, try out for American Idol. You might get a shot at momentary fame, but that's all it is, momentary.
As for Mr. Stanley... The people watching are not KISS fans, this is not bringing in dollars to your enterprise. People lose sight of the truth. The truth is that American Idol has got nothing to do with rock and roll, nothing to do with careers. Anybody can get on television, haven't you watched Survivor, or MTV or VH1? The PROGRAM is the star, not the talent. Never forget this.
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Post by madamex on Apr 26, 2008 22:13:28 GMT -5
Pretty good read Frank...I think the last sentences say it all: The truth is that American Idol has got nothing to do with rock and roll, nothing to do with careers. Anybody can get on television, haven't you watched Survivor, or MTV or VH1? The PROGRAM is the star, not the talent. Never forget this.I've never watched AI before but cannot escape peope talking about it.  I'm not a TV watcher at all aside from sports, actually. AI is for entertainment, maybe...my Mom watches it, just like she watches her soaps in the afternoon. I wouldn't dream of looking for new music on AI. I come here.  One thing though, I stumbled across Daughtry on My Space and dug what I heard, so I downloaded his CD from iTunes...and found out he was actually on AI. My husband made fun of me that I'm listening to someone that was on that show.  That's how he perceives that show.  |
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Post by Frank on Apr 27, 2008 11:05:22 GMT -5
The girl that became the singer in my band BTB tried out for AI for this season. And she was told she wasn't good enough!  She has a fantastic voice and she blows away all the Sh*tty people that actually win that joke of a "show" I already hated the show anyway. But when she called me & told me she didn't make the cut it really made me hate the show even more. AI has nothing to do with anybody's talent. Its all about making "Great Television"  |
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spankymadoo
Club Rocker
Looks like we're gonna have ourselves a Rock N Roll party tonight!!
Posts: 539
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Post by spankymadoo on Apr 27, 2008 18:57:41 GMT -5
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Mr Stanley was there to promote anything. I thought he was there because it was the music of Andrew Lloyd Webber. He did play the lead in Webber's Phantom of the opera. I assumed he was just there to show support, maybe get an in on another Webber play. Like I said though, I might be wrong. |
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Post by axisboldaslove on Apr 28, 2008 7:27:23 GMT -5
American Idol is what it is. It’s most definitely NOT about rock n roll, which is pretty obvious. I’m cool with it because at least it’s encouraging young kids to SING. I actually watch a bit of it here and there, but after awhile the lame music gets to me.
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Post by rtbuck on Apr 28, 2008 9:04:49 GMT -5
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Mr Stanley was there to promote anything. I thought he was there because it was the music of Andrew Lloyd Webber. He did play the lead in Webber's Phantom of the opera. I assumed he was just there to show support, maybe get an in on another Webber play. Like I said though, I might be wrong. I thought the same thing  I don't mind watching the show.My wife enjoys it so I watch it with her.I look at it like it's another TV show & it's all about the ratings.It's not going to effect my musical tastes by who wins |
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Post by spacel0rd on Apr 28, 2008 11:01:19 GMT -5
I don’t even know what the contestants look like this year. I am very proud of that fact.
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Post by aquarius on Apr 28, 2008 11:34:50 GMT -5
This show is a waste of my time. I will refuse to support a show that attracts an audience who has no interest in talent, but only popularity. I will refuse to support a show that focuses on Singers, and not artists. I will refuse to support a show that does not support Rock N Roll. F*CK American Idol ,and its commercialized bullSh*t. And one more thing... Who the F*CK can take this show seriously, when the fanbase is pre teen girls and soccer moms, who choose the winner cause he is cute, or she is pretty, instead of picking the best talent of the group? They wouldn't have a clue who is the best if it hit them in the ass. And I don't think they care who is the best. The fanbase of this show proves that talent is not the most important reason to choose a winner. I dispise the people that are a fan of this show. I hope that most of them die. LOL! JK....... ( Well not really) This show is a joke, plain and simple. I look forward to the day that it goes off the air. The reason why the music industry is in shambles is because of shows like this. It influences people to be fans of the wrong things when it comes to music, and being an artist. People now think that this is what they should be a fan of, and support. It makes me sick. |
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Post by axisboldaslove on Apr 28, 2008 12:02:55 GMT -5
The reason why the music industry is in shambles is because of shows like this. You are incredibly naive. |
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Post by Frank on Apr 28, 2008 12:21:53 GMT -5
The reason why the music industry is in shambles is because of shows like this. You are incredibly naive. Oh I don't know, I agreed with EVERYTHING he said. |
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Post by axisboldaslove on Apr 28, 2008 13:02:21 GMT -5
You are incredibly naive. Oh I don't know, I agreed with EVERYTHING he said. Then you're incredibly naive as well. Blaming American Idol and shows like it for the wretched condition of the music industry makes no sense at all. Some points for you to ponder: -there have ALWAYS been pop idols, made popular by young girls who liked cute singers. -at least the people on the show can sing, and they sing along to a real band! They show kids the art of singing, not just rapping over a drum machine and a sample. -the show is called American Idol, not American Rock Star. if you insist on only viewing shows that support rock n roll, I would imagine you don't watch much TV (which is not a bad thing). -you say F*CK American Idol and its commercialized bullSh*t. Do you think for one second that rock n roll hasn't been commercialized from its very inception? One example - hair metal. The entire idea behind hair metal is taking the limited-audience metal music and making it more commercial in order to appeal to a wider audience. |
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Post by aquarius on Apr 28, 2008 13:18:09 GMT -5
Oh I don't know, I agreed with EVERYTHING he said. Then you're incredibly naive as well. Blaming American Idol and shows like it for the wretched condition of the music industry makes no sense at all. Some points for you to ponder: -there have ALWAYS been pop idols, made popular by young girls who liked cute singers. -at least the people on the show can sing, and they sing along to a real band! They show kids the art of singing, not just rapping over a drum machine and a sample. -the show is called American Idol, not American Rock Star. if you insist on only viewing shows that support rock n roll, I would imagine you don't watch much TV (which is not a bad thing). -you say F*CK American Idol and its commercialized bullSh*t. Do you think for one second that rock n roll hasn't been commercialized from its very inception? One example - hair metal. The entire idea behind hair metal is taking the limited-audience metal music and making it more commercial in order to appeal to a wider audience. Yes but the music industry frowns down upon bands nowdays. American Idol is a Karoke contest, to choose a singer who will get a recording contract and an agreement to make an album. Then if she or he does not sell records, they will be dropped from the label. Back in the day, music labels gave bands and artists a chance to grow. American Idol does not help with finding the next great artist who will be signed to a long term deal. American Idol's goal is to find the next one hit wonder. Then drop them like they never knew them, and go onto the next season to see who the "Next" great singer will be. It has hurt the record industry, plain and simple. Its not the cause for everything that has gone wrong, but it is apart of the fallout that has been created by the record executives who want a fast paycheck. No one wants to help an artist grow anymore. Back in the day, when a talent was signed, they were signed to a mulitiple album deal. Some of the greatest products ever put out, they didn't even gain attention until their 3rd or 4th album. Nowdays, with shows like American Idol, the music industry is telling us that you have to be a star right away to be successful. |
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Post by axisboldaslove on Apr 28, 2008 13:27:35 GMT -5
"Nowdays, with shows like American Idol, the music industry is telling us that you have to be a star right away to be successful."
The unfortunate trend of wanting an immediate hit artist started LONG before American Idol. The concept of "baby bands" that the label would nurture was abandoned years ago.
American Idol is a SYMPTOM of the problem, not the problem itself. It's like blaming your nose when you have a cold, and ignoring the real reason your nose is running - the virus in your body.
I agree with you 100% that the current state if the industry is fucked; I just think that American Idol shouldn't be cast as the evil face behind the decline of rock n roll.
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Post by Frank on Apr 28, 2008 13:31:54 GMT -5
Oh I don't know, I agreed with EVERYTHING he said. Then you're incredibly naive as well. Blaming American Idol and shows like it for the wretched condition of the music industry makes no sense at all. Some points for you to ponder: -there have ALWAYS been pop idols, made popular by young girls who liked cute singers. -at least the people on the show can sing, and they sing along to a real band! They show kids the art of singing, not just rapping over a drum machine and a sample. -the show is called American Idol, not American Rock Star. if you insist on only viewing shows that support rock n roll, I would imagine you don't watch much TV (which is not a bad thing). -you say F*CK American Idol and its commercialized bullSh*t. Do you think for one second that rock n roll hasn't been commercialized from its very inception? One example - hair metal. The entire idea behind hair metal is taking the limited-audience metal music and making it more commercial in order to appeal to a wider audience. I wouldn't say that American Idol is completely to blame for the state of the music industry these days. Let's face it, the music industry was fucked up long before AI. I tried watching AI when it first came on. I just don't like the way talented singers get dumped for someone who's "cute" But you know what you're right there's always been pop singers clear back to the 50's. When bands were out busting their butts on the road to make a name for themselves theres always been some one hit wonder pop idol lurking in the wings that never has had to pay their dues to make it. Like Aquarius I believe that AI does not force anyone to work hard for their craft. The way its set up if that years winner has a successful album and puts a wad of money in their pocket they could care less if they never do any record again. Unlike most of us on this boards old favorite bands that had to bust their butts to get a hit. AI allows you to be a one hit wonder and say that its okay. |
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Post by aquarius on Apr 28, 2008 14:11:28 GMT -5
Then you're incredibly naive as well. Blaming American Idol and shows like it for the wretched condition of the music industry makes no sense at all. Some points for you to ponder: -there have ALWAYS been pop idols, made popular by young girls who liked cute singers. -at least the people on the show can sing, and they sing along to a real band! They show kids the art of singing, not just rapping over a drum machine and a sample. -the show is called American Idol, not American Rock Star. if you insist on only viewing shows that support rock n roll, I would imagine you don't watch much TV (which is not a bad thing). -you say F*CK American Idol and its commercialized bullSh*t. Do you think for one second that rock n roll hasn't been commercialized from its very inception? One example - hair metal. The entire idea behind hair metal is taking the limited-audience metal music and making it more commercial in order to appeal to a wider audience. I wouldn't say that American Idol is completely to blame for the state of the music industry these days. Let's face it, the music industry was F*CKed up long before AI. I tried watching AI when it first came on. I just don't like the way talented singers get dumped for someone who's "cute" But you know what you're right there's always been pop singers clear back to the 50's. When bands were out busting their butts on the road to make a name for themselves theres always been some one hit wonder pop idol lurking in the wings that never has had to pay their dues to make it. Like Aquarius I believe that AI does not force anyone to work hard for their craft. The way its set up if that years winner has a successful album and puts a wad of money in their pocket they could care less if they never do any record again. Unlike most of us on this boards old favorite bands that had to bust their butts to get a hit. AI allows you to be a one hit wonder and say that its okay. Yep. And the people that are influenced by this, even the singers that go and dream of being on American Idol, I don't think they care about having a long career in music. They just go "Wow, I can get on that show, have a hit song, and be set for life" That is F*CKing bullSh*t. It hurts the music industry cause you have all these people who don't care about being a legend, and writing quality songs and being artists. They just end up wanting to make that one hit that will carry them for the rest of their life, and give them money. They don't care about putting out multiple platinum albums, and so forth. There is no desire anymore to be the next Rolling Stones. Kids just don't look at them as an influence. But they sure look at American Idol. Makes me want to puke! |
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Post by Pete on Apr 28, 2008 23:19:13 GMT -5
I've never seen the show. Sirius Octane 20 plays that song with Daughtry and Slash which isn't bad. I don't know If he's just a singer or what his deal is and don't really care. His power pop is more tolerable than much pop music today. Other than that I really don't give two shits about AI and don't believe it has that big of an impact on the music industry as a whole.
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Post by Equinox on Apr 29, 2008 0:29:33 GMT -5
This show is a waste of my time. I will refuse to support a show that attracts an audience who has no interest in talent, but only popularity. I will refuse to support a show that focuses on Singers, and not artists. I will refuse to support a show that does not support Rock N Roll. F*CK American Idol ,and its commercialized bullSh*t. And one more thing... Who the F*CK can take this show seriously, when the fanbase is pre teen girls and soccer moms, who choose the winner cause he is cute, or she is pretty, instead of picking the best talent of the group? They wouldn't have a clue who is the best if it hit them in the ass. And I don't think they care who is the best. The fanbase of this show proves that talent is not the most important reason to choose a winner. I dispise the people that are a fan of this show. I hope that most of them die. LOL! JK....... ( Well not really) This show is a joke, plain and simple. I look forward to the day that it goes off the air. The reason why the music industry is in shambles is because of shows like this. It influences people to be fans of the wrong things when it comes to music, and being an artist. People now think that this is what they should be a fan of, and support. It makes me sick. AI is not my cup of tea for sure. But you are off base about who watches this. People do watch this show to see talent. In fact, the fanbase is large! I know guys I work with that watch it every week with their family. I really don't think AI is too worried that you or I don't "support" the show. They have millions worldwide that do. The show is what it is. An entertainment show. If it gets families to sit and spend an hour together, it's a good thing IMO. I know I still remember sitting with the family wachting Hee Haw, Andy Williams, Dean martin, and other mindless activities and they are fond memories. I put this in the same category. |
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Post by axisboldaslove on Apr 29, 2008 7:08:57 GMT -5
I really don't give two Sh*ts about AI and don't believe it has that big of an impact on the music industry as a whole. Exactly. The 12 year old kid practicing guitar for five hours a day, who dreams of being a rock star - American Idol means nothing to this kid. "The show is what it is. An entertainment show. If it gets families to sit and spend an hour together, it's a good thing IMO." I agree with Equinox on this point. In this day and age of total shit TV, it's nice that there is something that the family can sit together and watch. |
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Post by rtbuck on Apr 29, 2008 8:02:35 GMT -5
I really don't give two Sh*ts about AI and don't believe it has that big of an impact on the music industry as a whole. Exactly. The 12 year old kid practicing guitar for five hours a day, who dreams of being a rock star - American Idol means nothing to this kid. "The show is what it is. An entertainment show. If it gets families to sit and spend an hour together, it's a good thing IMO." I agree with Equinox on this point. In this day and age of total Sh*t TV, it's nice that there is something that the family can sit together and watch. Axis,once again you(& Equinox) are dead on. My nephew just turned 13 & was into the Guitar Hero game for the last few years. He's heavilly into Aveng Sevenfold,Metallica,Queen,& Red Hot Chili Peppers to the point that he knows almost all their material. Well it turns out Guitar Hero is fun but it's not enough & he is now playing guitar & reading music. He also does like watching American Idol though he has no desire to perform that type of music.It is great family fun & I use to sit around with my family Pickin' & a grinnin' to Buck & Roy on Hee Haw,watch Deano slide down the pole singing "Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime", & even enjoyed Myron Flore on the accordion with the Lawrence Welk show. |
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I'm not a TV watcher at all aside from sports, actually. AI is for entertainment, maybe...my Mom watches it, just like she watches her soaps in the afternoon.
That's how he perceives that show. 
She has a fantastic voice and she blows away all the Sh*tty people that actually win that joke of a "show" I already hated the show anyway. But when she called me & told me she didn't make the cut it really made me hate the show even more. AI has nothing to do with anybody's talent. Its all about making "Great Television" 
