Post by HARD ROCK UNIVERSE on Jun 19, 2006 22:50:36 GMT -5
Andy Powell Of Wishbone Ash
Interview by Nightwatcher
May 23, 2006
During the early to mid-1970's, Wishbone Ash was one of England's most successful and influential hard rock bands. One of the originators of the twin lead guitar style, which was a direct influence on later British bands such as Thin Lizzy, Iron Maiden, UFO and Judas Priest, as well as Southern rock bands like Lynyrd Skynyrd. Discovered by manager Miles Copeland (who would later use his experience gleaned from Wishbone Ash when launching the career of The Police), the band (originally consisting of guitarists Ted Turner and Andy Powell, bassist/vocalist Martin Turner and drummer Steve Upton), while subsequently undergoing numerous personnel changes throughout the years, have persevered, enjoying an amazing, prolific career. A long, storied, illustrious career which has produced several classic albums along the way, beginning with their self-titled debut in 1970, continuing with '71's impressive 'Pilgrimage,' and culminating most notably with 1972's 'Argus' -- which, besides being voted by readers of Sounds magazine 'Best Rock Album Of The Year' in '72, remains a classic slice of early 70's classic hard rock. An incredibly potent blend of folk, progressive, heavy rock and classical music, combined with inventive harmony vocals, precise instrumentation, and fantastic songwriting, this is essential listening for any credible rock fan. Incredible as it may seem, the band last year celebrated their 35th anniversary (releasing over 30 albums along the way ) and show no signs of slowing down in the immediate future. Now with sole remaining original member guitarist Andy Powell at the helm, going as strong as ever, said future still looks bright for these legendary rockers.
Recently I had the opportunity to catch up with the guitarist as the band was headed from Baltimore to Cleveland, near the start of the current U.S. tour, in support of their great new release, 'Clan Destiny,' the long anticipated follow up to 2002's 'Bona Fide,' out in the U.S. via Eagle Rock Records on May 16th -- one which is sure to join the ranks of true Ash classics. Read on as we talk to one of the greatest rock guitarists of all time, Mr. Andy Powell...
A BIG thanks to Andy for doing this interview for Rock N Roll Universe!
Rock N Roll Universe: Wishbone Ash has a new album out, 'Clan Destiny'. What can you tell us about that, and is there any stylistic difference between this album and 'Bona Fide'?
Andy Powell : Well, if you're familiar with 'Bona Fide,' it's a fairly upbeat... there's a lot of energy on that record. This record is definitely a follow up from it. However, the songs are probably a bit more song based, perhaps a bit more focused on the songwriting. The reviews, and the reaction from the people who've been buying it, seem very, very positive. I'm very pleased with the final result, no question about it. It really showcases the plan of this band. In particular, we've got a different guitar player since 'Bona Fide.' In fact, it's a gentleman by the name of Muddy Manninen, who's also Finnish, as was his predecessor Ben Granfelt. The interesting thing about it was that, the two of those guys played in a twin lead guitar band (Gringos Locos) in Finland. So, it's almost like keeping it in the family. Because Muddy almost acted as a mentor for Ben Granfelt. He got a lot of his technique from Muddy. In addition to that, Muddy is a great slide guitar player. It's been fun for me to find another songwriting partner. We've really just scratched the surface on this new one, in terms of what I think our potential is. But, it's been a very rewarding experience doing the album.
RNRU : Will there be any long, extended pieces on the album in the classic Wishbone Ash tradition?
AP : Well, there are a couple of things on there that have got an almost progressive rock feel about them. There's one song called "The Raven," and there's another piece called "Capture That Moment," which are definitely throwbacks to an earlier Wishbone Ash style. We've tended to not get too indulgent about the guitar solos. We leave that for the stage performance, really, where we're much freer to extend those songs. We've tried to keep the album fairly concise.They've definitely got a type of journey type feel to them, those particular songs. They take you on a musical journey somewhat. Which I know that's what the band is known for.
RNRU : You just mentioned that you do have a new guitarist, Muddy Manninen, and Ben Granfelt has left. What happened with Ben, and how did you get Muddy into the band?
AP : We're a band that works a lot. We're at the point where we do have the time to get out on the road. We do enjoy playing, and we do enjoy travelling, more importantly almost. I think for Ben, the four years in the band, the intense schedule of 175 dates in a year... I think in his personal life, he had remarried, wanted a family, and it was just a little too much time away from home. That was one thing. Another thing is, before he joined the band, he was a bandleader in his own right, with The Ben Granfelt Band. They have their own recording deals, and that's very much a part of his life that he put on hold for Wishbone Ash. He came to me at the end, and said, "Look, I really feel that I just need time for ME now." That was completely understandable. We had a great run, did a fantastic album, a couple of really good videos, DVD's. He's a helluva nice guy. The fact that he needed that space... it wasn't easy, it's never easy when someone leaves, but he said to me, "Look, if you need a replacement, I can really thoroughly recommend this guy." I was a bit reticent at first, because I thought, "Well, let's cast the net wider, perhaps we'll get back and find another British guitarist." We went and had an audition process. We didn't cold audition, we worked with people we knew by word of mouth, or we already knew. We don't actually go down that road anymore. So, he came up to London, and went through that process. We had to all admit, "This guy's a really rootsy player, and he's also got the same musical heritage that we've all got." When we played together, it was instant. He said afterwards, "It's like I've just come home." So, it was obvious, really. That was it. I'll be eternally grateful to Ben for recommending Muddy. It's been a very nice transition, to be honest with you.
RNRU : It sounds like there was great chemistry between you right away...
AP : It is a chemistry, you're absolutely right.
RNRU : You're undertaking a U.S. tour as we speak, to support the album. That started yesterday?
AP : Actually, a couple of days ago. We started in Connecticuit, did Long Island, the iMac Center there, then to Baltimore, a really nice theater there. It's an American Tour, but it's not the whole country. We'll do the balance of the country, then places we didn't get to on this tour, we'll get to in September probably. For the most part, this tour is heading across the Northern route really. We'll be doing a second leg of the tour. It's impossible to cover this country in its entirety in a month. (Laughs) It's not gonna work. We're here for the duration, as far as touring America. We're back on the circuit again, which we weren't on for many years. We realize we've got some dues to pay again, and we're doing it. It seems to be working.
RNRU : What are your expectations, sales-wise, for this album? What would make you happy this time around?
AP : Worldwide? I don't think you're talking... CD sales now have really plummeted for all bands really. What was seen to be a Gold record, a big selling CD or album is quite different. We really probably sell the bulk of our product on the road when we're touring. They fly off the shelves, or the merchandise stand. You're probably looking at, total, maybe between 25, 30, maybe if we're lucky, 50,000. Worldwide. That's not huge numbers when you think about the world, but the way it works these days, the big chains, like Borders, will stock 1 or 2, right across the country, then those will go. With computerized ordering, these stores can literally just order 1 or 2 units of a CD. They carry a huge inventory. But, we will be covered. We're with a serious, independent label, Eagle Rock. So, unlike 'Bona Fide,' this will get access to all markets really.
RNRU : Critics throughout the years have described the band's sound as either progressive, some have said heavy rock, heavy folk rock, or even blues boogie. Would you agree with assessments of the band's sound? What would you say the band's sound is?
AP : It's tough to pigeonhole a band like Wishbone Ash. The key thing really, is we're a twin lead guitar band. If you want to talk about progressive, well, we came from the progressive era, when there were all these bands coming up in the U.K. and the U.S. Like Jethro Tull, Yes, Deep Purple... we were in that wave of bands that came up after the British blues boom of the late 60's, and early psychedelia. You had bands like Cream. Really, Wishbone Ash is the bastard son of all those kinds of influences. You had a very eclectic, sort of flowering of music, eclectic music styles around that time. If you were a band around '69, '70, when we were formed, you had to have your own style, your own sound. All bands at that point were very conscious of having their own technique, their own style. Wishbone Ash was no different. We realized the extended blues guitar riffing had been done ad nauseum. We needed to take the guitar on to a different level. So, we conceived, along with a couple of other bands, of taking the guitars and using them rather like a horn section. I had been in r&b and soul bands in London prior to that, I was very used to working out horn parts as a rhythm guitar player at that time. So, I figured, well, how about just taking that idea and using the guitars improvisationally, as always, but make these little sounds, pieces and riffs, that were almost like horn parts, really. That was what gave the band its distinctive sound. Along with the harmonized vocals on a lot of the lead lines. I think it all came together for us on the 'Argus' album, in terms of the band being defined. I think later on we somewhat lost the plot. But, if you look at the first 3 albums, you can see there was a gradual progression towards what culminated in the 'Argus' album, in 1972. The great thing about that period of time is it gave bands like us the freedom to not be pigeonholed. I feel sorry in a way for bands these days. You've got to be one genre or another. Well, we're almost like a jam band in a way, as much as we were able to dip into folk rock. Folk rock is a big part of our roots. But we were able to dip into jazz tinged things, blues tinged things, and down outright rock. If you think about all the things you can do on electric guitar, or acoustic guitar, it's right there within the music of Wishbone Ash.
RNRU : What inspired you and Ted Turner to come up with the dual lead guitar sound in the first place? How did that come about?
AP : It was really the original rhythm section of Martin Turner and Steve Upton. They were looking for one guitar player and a Hammond player. They had a guy who was about ready to join the band, but when it came to the process of auditioning guitar players, they couldn't decide between Ted Turner and myself. I was perhaps a more frenetic player, Ted was perhaps a more laid back, bluesy player. So what they decided was, "Let's throw these two guys in a room, and let them duke it out, and the best man will win." It was really, at that time, that they thought, why not, instead of going down the road of having a keyboard player, why don't we take the two of them. We can come up with something interesting here. So, that was what was decided. When the four of us got together and started playing, we realized the potential in that way. So, it was a collective decision really.
RNRU : The dual lead guitar sound definitely stood out and has influenced many bands, such as Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and Thin Lizzy. All have named Wishbone Ash as a huge influence on their style, and probably a lot of the subsequent bands that had that configuration owe a lot to the band as well. How does that make you feel?
AP : A lot of the NWOBHM bands from the 80's would cite... those kids, or men that were in those bands now, were kids when they used to come to our concerts. For example, I met Scott Gorham from Thin Lizzy a couple of years ago, and he freely admitted to me that when he and Phil came over from Ireland, they came to London -- and Thin Lizzy's a great twin guitar band, perhaps a bit more commercial band than Wishbone Ash -- but the first concert they went to was Wishbone Ash at The Lyceum Ballroom in London. Phil said to Scott, "That is what we've got to be doing. That's a cool sound." So, Scott was very nice, he paid me that compliment. They took it on and did their music, which was based on that sound. We, in turn, were definitely influenced by very esoteric bands at the time. A band called Blossom Toes out of England, who were an early twin lead guitar band, we cast an ear to them. They were something that definitely inspired me. Then it was actually much later that we came over and toured America on our first tour. We were put together with The Allman Brothers. I think they thought that was a good match. It was, but The Allman Brothers were obviously different in the fact that they were Southern rock. Skynyrd's another band that's definitely been influenced by Wishbone Ash. If you listen to the song "Freebird." which we all know was a huge, international hit, they would stand at the side of the stage and watch us playing "Phoenix," which is another song about a bird. Very, very long, extended song, with a lot of guitar duelling and riffing. So, I hear these little influences in different people's songs. Steely Dan's "Reelin' In The Years," the riff at the end of that, that's "Blowin' Free" at the end. You can hear these, and I think all bands used to do that, around that time, take little bits of each other. If you were on the road playing with bands, you'd listen and be influenced. We got things from other bands, too, I remember playing with Steve Miller, some of his guitar sounds, and thinking, "I love that clean guitar sound, let's use that on a song here and there." So, that's a nice thing about it. Music's owned by everyone, really. It's how you choose to use it, and what components you put together. I'm very honored that some of these younger bands, like Iron Maiden, these bands have been influenced, and it's had a good impact. It's something that you just know, privately, and within musical circles people talk and acknowledge. That's a nice kudo. I don't always need the pat on the back from the press, or radio play. But to know that, that we did something in that way is good.
RNRU : You just mentioned being influenced by other bands, and were talking about "Phoenix." During the instrumental break, with the guitar work, you can hear that there are licks that sound similar to ones used also in Deep Purple's "Child In Time." Were you influenced by Purple's sound at all during the time of recording your first album?
AP : Actually, no, I can honestly say. Although, in a strange way, Deep Purple had a huge impact on our career, because it was Ritchie Blackmore who... we were opening for them on a show, and I ended up jamming with him at a sound check. Afterwards, he came to me and said, "Have you guys got a record deal?" I said no, he said, "Well, you need one." We said, "Yes, please!" He said, "Here's a phone number, call up this producer." I did, and one thing led to another, and we ended up, through Ritchie's influence, getting ourselves a nice recording contract with MCA/Universal. So, they had a huge impact on how we started off in the business, as it were. But, in terms of musical influence, I can't say we were hugely influenced by them. Although I respect those guys. Ritchie... Ian Paice's a great drummer. Impressed, but not influenced musically.
RNRU : Are there any bands or artists in the current music scene that you listen to, that you've been impressed by?
AP : I can't say there's a lot of bands that I listen to intently. I listen to singer/songwriters. There's a guy I was listening to today, Gabriel Gordon, he's an American, but he seems to work more in Europe at the moment. I listen to people working on song structures, that kind of thing a lot. Because I'm doing more singing these days, I'm listening to a lot of singers. For edification, if you like. As far as young bands, I'm checking out Franz Ferdinand, and any of the young bands that are quite popular at the moment, I check out their CD's. I might only play them once. I might buy the new Green Day, and say "Oh, there's probably a couple of really good songs in there." The rest of it I might not be too crazy on, or I like the production. I'm definitely listening, not intensely, but stuff goes past me, I'm checking it out. When I'm listening for relaxation, it tends to be a lot of classical music. It's very often not guitar music. (Laughs) Although, for example, yesterday we were all sitting around listening to Wes Montgomery. We were listening to everything, from jazz, classical, ethnic music, whatever.
RNRU : What about guitarists? In the current mainstream, the art of guitar playing has definitely taken a back seat...
AP : Well, Scott Henderson with Tribal Tech, that guy's a phenomenal player in the jazz/rock area. That's somebody I'll listen to, and I'll just go, "Whoa.". Wayne Kraentz, or somebody like that. There's some phenomenal players in that area that'll never sell more than 5,000 CD's, and be the darlings of the current "muso" set. These kind of players, there's some monsters out there. Most people tend to know about Steve Vai, that kind of thing, but there are some amazing players out there. I was just in New York City at The Iridium Club, to see Les Paul play. That was a real treat. He was phenomenal, actually. Much better than I thought he'd be at 90-something, whatever he is. It was amazing, and the band was cool. A couple of guest singers got up. Then this kid got up, from Tokyo, Les introduced him, and he was playing a ukelele. I swear, this kid was a monster. He was doing stuff on the ukelele... he had it plugged in, was doing effects, he was playing this thing like a virtuoso guitar player. It was unreal. There are people out there that you just think, "Wow, these people should have huge success." So, there's always some great players around, but you don't always hear about them these days.
RNRU : One of the aspects of your playing that seems to be overlooked is your style of rhythm guitar. How important do you feel, as a guitarist, to be a great rhythm guitarist as well?
AP : Well, that's how I started off. I really like good rhythm playing. Sometimes the lead playing can be totally indulgent, but I really enjoy rhythm guitar. If you said to me, "I'm going to take away either your lead guitar playing or your rhythm guitar playing, what's it going to be?" Even though I'm noted as a lead guitar player, I'd probably say, "If you're going to take one or the other away, and I could never play lead, but I could play rhythm, I'd stick with that." I do enjoy playing lead, and I have a great tone, and it enables you to bear your soul. But the rhythm thing gets me.
RNRU : One of the identifiable aspects of your sound comes from the fact that throughout your career, you've played a '67 Gibson Flying V. What led you to making the V your guitar of choice over other models such as a Strat or Les Paul?
AP : Well, I didn't think too carefully about it at the time. The Flying V, around the late '60's, early 70's, was a guitar that no one really wanted. It was considered too whacky, too experimental. Everybody was familiar with the Fender Strat. That was almost like the industry standard. Gibson, the Les Paul, Eric Clapton was using the Les Paul, and that was considered the guitar for blues. Then there was this Flying V thing, and really they weren't selling. But I had always remembered Albert King playing one, and getting a phenomenal tone. I just thought, "That's an interesting guitar," and I just happened to be down in London, in a music store down there. The guy had 2 from 1967, in the cardboard boxes, sitting there. They'd been in the store for 5 years. They were absolutely brand spanking new from the factory. So I tried one out, and I was immediately hooked. I thought, "This is it." I bought the guitar, took it home, and I started to use it. I just connected with the shape. I was a little skinny kid at that time, and I could seem to be able to wrap myself around the guitar. With the fins on the thing, they have a very vibrant sound. Unlike a Les Paul, which has a thick, solid sound. These things really give a very vibrant sound, and I immediately noticed that it really sang out when I played lead. I made a couple of modifications over the years, put on some original PAF pickups from 1959 to fatten the sound up a little bit. But I've always stuck with the Flying V's. I even went back in time and bought a '58 and a '59, at a time when you could buy them and be affordable, because no one wanted them. (Laughs) That was a very different instrument though. Almost more akin to a Les Paul, with the neck and thicker body. The '67 V has been my mainstay, really, that style.
Interview by Nightwatcher
May 23, 2006
During the early to mid-1970's, Wishbone Ash was one of England's most successful and influential hard rock bands. One of the originators of the twin lead guitar style, which was a direct influence on later British bands such as Thin Lizzy, Iron Maiden, UFO and Judas Priest, as well as Southern rock bands like Lynyrd Skynyrd. Discovered by manager Miles Copeland (who would later use his experience gleaned from Wishbone Ash when launching the career of The Police), the band (originally consisting of guitarists Ted Turner and Andy Powell, bassist/vocalist Martin Turner and drummer Steve Upton), while subsequently undergoing numerous personnel changes throughout the years, have persevered, enjoying an amazing, prolific career. A long, storied, illustrious career which has produced several classic albums along the way, beginning with their self-titled debut in 1970, continuing with '71's impressive 'Pilgrimage,' and culminating most notably with 1972's 'Argus' -- which, besides being voted by readers of Sounds magazine 'Best Rock Album Of The Year' in '72, remains a classic slice of early 70's classic hard rock. An incredibly potent blend of folk, progressive, heavy rock and classical music, combined with inventive harmony vocals, precise instrumentation, and fantastic songwriting, this is essential listening for any credible rock fan. Incredible as it may seem, the band last year celebrated their 35th anniversary (releasing over 30 albums along the way ) and show no signs of slowing down in the immediate future. Now with sole remaining original member guitarist Andy Powell at the helm, going as strong as ever, said future still looks bright for these legendary rockers.
Recently I had the opportunity to catch up with the guitarist as the band was headed from Baltimore to Cleveland, near the start of the current U.S. tour, in support of their great new release, 'Clan Destiny,' the long anticipated follow up to 2002's 'Bona Fide,' out in the U.S. via Eagle Rock Records on May 16th -- one which is sure to join the ranks of true Ash classics. Read on as we talk to one of the greatest rock guitarists of all time, Mr. Andy Powell...
A BIG thanks to Andy for doing this interview for Rock N Roll Universe!
Rock N Roll Universe: Wishbone Ash has a new album out, 'Clan Destiny'. What can you tell us about that, and is there any stylistic difference between this album and 'Bona Fide'?
Andy Powell : Well, if you're familiar with 'Bona Fide,' it's a fairly upbeat... there's a lot of energy on that record. This record is definitely a follow up from it. However, the songs are probably a bit more song based, perhaps a bit more focused on the songwriting. The reviews, and the reaction from the people who've been buying it, seem very, very positive. I'm very pleased with the final result, no question about it. It really showcases the plan of this band. In particular, we've got a different guitar player since 'Bona Fide.' In fact, it's a gentleman by the name of Muddy Manninen, who's also Finnish, as was his predecessor Ben Granfelt. The interesting thing about it was that, the two of those guys played in a twin lead guitar band (Gringos Locos) in Finland. So, it's almost like keeping it in the family. Because Muddy almost acted as a mentor for Ben Granfelt. He got a lot of his technique from Muddy. In addition to that, Muddy is a great slide guitar player. It's been fun for me to find another songwriting partner. We've really just scratched the surface on this new one, in terms of what I think our potential is. But, it's been a very rewarding experience doing the album.
RNRU : Will there be any long, extended pieces on the album in the classic Wishbone Ash tradition?
AP : Well, there are a couple of things on there that have got an almost progressive rock feel about them. There's one song called "The Raven," and there's another piece called "Capture That Moment," which are definitely throwbacks to an earlier Wishbone Ash style. We've tended to not get too indulgent about the guitar solos. We leave that for the stage performance, really, where we're much freer to extend those songs. We've tried to keep the album fairly concise.They've definitely got a type of journey type feel to them, those particular songs. They take you on a musical journey somewhat. Which I know that's what the band is known for.
RNRU : You just mentioned that you do have a new guitarist, Muddy Manninen, and Ben Granfelt has left. What happened with Ben, and how did you get Muddy into the band?
AP : We're a band that works a lot. We're at the point where we do have the time to get out on the road. We do enjoy playing, and we do enjoy travelling, more importantly almost. I think for Ben, the four years in the band, the intense schedule of 175 dates in a year... I think in his personal life, he had remarried, wanted a family, and it was just a little too much time away from home. That was one thing. Another thing is, before he joined the band, he was a bandleader in his own right, with The Ben Granfelt Band. They have their own recording deals, and that's very much a part of his life that he put on hold for Wishbone Ash. He came to me at the end, and said, "Look, I really feel that I just need time for ME now." That was completely understandable. We had a great run, did a fantastic album, a couple of really good videos, DVD's. He's a helluva nice guy. The fact that he needed that space... it wasn't easy, it's never easy when someone leaves, but he said to me, "Look, if you need a replacement, I can really thoroughly recommend this guy." I was a bit reticent at first, because I thought, "Well, let's cast the net wider, perhaps we'll get back and find another British guitarist." We went and had an audition process. We didn't cold audition, we worked with people we knew by word of mouth, or we already knew. We don't actually go down that road anymore. So, he came up to London, and went through that process. We had to all admit, "This guy's a really rootsy player, and he's also got the same musical heritage that we've all got." When we played together, it was instant. He said afterwards, "It's like I've just come home." So, it was obvious, really. That was it. I'll be eternally grateful to Ben for recommending Muddy. It's been a very nice transition, to be honest with you.
RNRU : It sounds like there was great chemistry between you right away...
AP : It is a chemistry, you're absolutely right.
RNRU : You're undertaking a U.S. tour as we speak, to support the album. That started yesterday?
AP : Actually, a couple of days ago. We started in Connecticuit, did Long Island, the iMac Center there, then to Baltimore, a really nice theater there. It's an American Tour, but it's not the whole country. We'll do the balance of the country, then places we didn't get to on this tour, we'll get to in September probably. For the most part, this tour is heading across the Northern route really. We'll be doing a second leg of the tour. It's impossible to cover this country in its entirety in a month. (Laughs) It's not gonna work. We're here for the duration, as far as touring America. We're back on the circuit again, which we weren't on for many years. We realize we've got some dues to pay again, and we're doing it. It seems to be working.
RNRU : What are your expectations, sales-wise, for this album? What would make you happy this time around?
AP : Worldwide? I don't think you're talking... CD sales now have really plummeted for all bands really. What was seen to be a Gold record, a big selling CD or album is quite different. We really probably sell the bulk of our product on the road when we're touring. They fly off the shelves, or the merchandise stand. You're probably looking at, total, maybe between 25, 30, maybe if we're lucky, 50,000. Worldwide. That's not huge numbers when you think about the world, but the way it works these days, the big chains, like Borders, will stock 1 or 2, right across the country, then those will go. With computerized ordering, these stores can literally just order 1 or 2 units of a CD. They carry a huge inventory. But, we will be covered. We're with a serious, independent label, Eagle Rock. So, unlike 'Bona Fide,' this will get access to all markets really.
RNRU : Critics throughout the years have described the band's sound as either progressive, some have said heavy rock, heavy folk rock, or even blues boogie. Would you agree with assessments of the band's sound? What would you say the band's sound is?
AP : It's tough to pigeonhole a band like Wishbone Ash. The key thing really, is we're a twin lead guitar band. If you want to talk about progressive, well, we came from the progressive era, when there were all these bands coming up in the U.K. and the U.S. Like Jethro Tull, Yes, Deep Purple... we were in that wave of bands that came up after the British blues boom of the late 60's, and early psychedelia. You had bands like Cream. Really, Wishbone Ash is the bastard son of all those kinds of influences. You had a very eclectic, sort of flowering of music, eclectic music styles around that time. If you were a band around '69, '70, when we were formed, you had to have your own style, your own sound. All bands at that point were very conscious of having their own technique, their own style. Wishbone Ash was no different. We realized the extended blues guitar riffing had been done ad nauseum. We needed to take the guitar on to a different level. So, we conceived, along with a couple of other bands, of taking the guitars and using them rather like a horn section. I had been in r&b and soul bands in London prior to that, I was very used to working out horn parts as a rhythm guitar player at that time. So, I figured, well, how about just taking that idea and using the guitars improvisationally, as always, but make these little sounds, pieces and riffs, that were almost like horn parts, really. That was what gave the band its distinctive sound. Along with the harmonized vocals on a lot of the lead lines. I think it all came together for us on the 'Argus' album, in terms of the band being defined. I think later on we somewhat lost the plot. But, if you look at the first 3 albums, you can see there was a gradual progression towards what culminated in the 'Argus' album, in 1972. The great thing about that period of time is it gave bands like us the freedom to not be pigeonholed. I feel sorry in a way for bands these days. You've got to be one genre or another. Well, we're almost like a jam band in a way, as much as we were able to dip into folk rock. Folk rock is a big part of our roots. But we were able to dip into jazz tinged things, blues tinged things, and down outright rock. If you think about all the things you can do on electric guitar, or acoustic guitar, it's right there within the music of Wishbone Ash.
RNRU : What inspired you and Ted Turner to come up with the dual lead guitar sound in the first place? How did that come about?
AP : It was really the original rhythm section of Martin Turner and Steve Upton. They were looking for one guitar player and a Hammond player. They had a guy who was about ready to join the band, but when it came to the process of auditioning guitar players, they couldn't decide between Ted Turner and myself. I was perhaps a more frenetic player, Ted was perhaps a more laid back, bluesy player. So what they decided was, "Let's throw these two guys in a room, and let them duke it out, and the best man will win." It was really, at that time, that they thought, why not, instead of going down the road of having a keyboard player, why don't we take the two of them. We can come up with something interesting here. So, that was what was decided. When the four of us got together and started playing, we realized the potential in that way. So, it was a collective decision really.
RNRU : The dual lead guitar sound definitely stood out and has influenced many bands, such as Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and Thin Lizzy. All have named Wishbone Ash as a huge influence on their style, and probably a lot of the subsequent bands that had that configuration owe a lot to the band as well. How does that make you feel?
AP : A lot of the NWOBHM bands from the 80's would cite... those kids, or men that were in those bands now, were kids when they used to come to our concerts. For example, I met Scott Gorham from Thin Lizzy a couple of years ago, and he freely admitted to me that when he and Phil came over from Ireland, they came to London -- and Thin Lizzy's a great twin guitar band, perhaps a bit more commercial band than Wishbone Ash -- but the first concert they went to was Wishbone Ash at The Lyceum Ballroom in London. Phil said to Scott, "That is what we've got to be doing. That's a cool sound." So, Scott was very nice, he paid me that compliment. They took it on and did their music, which was based on that sound. We, in turn, were definitely influenced by very esoteric bands at the time. A band called Blossom Toes out of England, who were an early twin lead guitar band, we cast an ear to them. They were something that definitely inspired me. Then it was actually much later that we came over and toured America on our first tour. We were put together with The Allman Brothers. I think they thought that was a good match. It was, but The Allman Brothers were obviously different in the fact that they were Southern rock. Skynyrd's another band that's definitely been influenced by Wishbone Ash. If you listen to the song "Freebird." which we all know was a huge, international hit, they would stand at the side of the stage and watch us playing "Phoenix," which is another song about a bird. Very, very long, extended song, with a lot of guitar duelling and riffing. So, I hear these little influences in different people's songs. Steely Dan's "Reelin' In The Years," the riff at the end of that, that's "Blowin' Free" at the end. You can hear these, and I think all bands used to do that, around that time, take little bits of each other. If you were on the road playing with bands, you'd listen and be influenced. We got things from other bands, too, I remember playing with Steve Miller, some of his guitar sounds, and thinking, "I love that clean guitar sound, let's use that on a song here and there." So, that's a nice thing about it. Music's owned by everyone, really. It's how you choose to use it, and what components you put together. I'm very honored that some of these younger bands, like Iron Maiden, these bands have been influenced, and it's had a good impact. It's something that you just know, privately, and within musical circles people talk and acknowledge. That's a nice kudo. I don't always need the pat on the back from the press, or radio play. But to know that, that we did something in that way is good.
RNRU : You just mentioned being influenced by other bands, and were talking about "Phoenix." During the instrumental break, with the guitar work, you can hear that there are licks that sound similar to ones used also in Deep Purple's "Child In Time." Were you influenced by Purple's sound at all during the time of recording your first album?
AP : Actually, no, I can honestly say. Although, in a strange way, Deep Purple had a huge impact on our career, because it was Ritchie Blackmore who... we were opening for them on a show, and I ended up jamming with him at a sound check. Afterwards, he came to me and said, "Have you guys got a record deal?" I said no, he said, "Well, you need one." We said, "Yes, please!" He said, "Here's a phone number, call up this producer." I did, and one thing led to another, and we ended up, through Ritchie's influence, getting ourselves a nice recording contract with MCA/Universal. So, they had a huge impact on how we started off in the business, as it were. But, in terms of musical influence, I can't say we were hugely influenced by them. Although I respect those guys. Ritchie... Ian Paice's a great drummer. Impressed, but not influenced musically.
RNRU : Are there any bands or artists in the current music scene that you listen to, that you've been impressed by?
AP : I can't say there's a lot of bands that I listen to intently. I listen to singer/songwriters. There's a guy I was listening to today, Gabriel Gordon, he's an American, but he seems to work more in Europe at the moment. I listen to people working on song structures, that kind of thing a lot. Because I'm doing more singing these days, I'm listening to a lot of singers. For edification, if you like. As far as young bands, I'm checking out Franz Ferdinand, and any of the young bands that are quite popular at the moment, I check out their CD's. I might only play them once. I might buy the new Green Day, and say "Oh, there's probably a couple of really good songs in there." The rest of it I might not be too crazy on, or I like the production. I'm definitely listening, not intensely, but stuff goes past me, I'm checking it out. When I'm listening for relaxation, it tends to be a lot of classical music. It's very often not guitar music. (Laughs) Although, for example, yesterday we were all sitting around listening to Wes Montgomery. We were listening to everything, from jazz, classical, ethnic music, whatever.
RNRU : What about guitarists? In the current mainstream, the art of guitar playing has definitely taken a back seat...
AP : Well, Scott Henderson with Tribal Tech, that guy's a phenomenal player in the jazz/rock area. That's somebody I'll listen to, and I'll just go, "Whoa.". Wayne Kraentz, or somebody like that. There's some phenomenal players in that area that'll never sell more than 5,000 CD's, and be the darlings of the current "muso" set. These kind of players, there's some monsters out there. Most people tend to know about Steve Vai, that kind of thing, but there are some amazing players out there. I was just in New York City at The Iridium Club, to see Les Paul play. That was a real treat. He was phenomenal, actually. Much better than I thought he'd be at 90-something, whatever he is. It was amazing, and the band was cool. A couple of guest singers got up. Then this kid got up, from Tokyo, Les introduced him, and he was playing a ukelele. I swear, this kid was a monster. He was doing stuff on the ukelele... he had it plugged in, was doing effects, he was playing this thing like a virtuoso guitar player. It was unreal. There are people out there that you just think, "Wow, these people should have huge success." So, there's always some great players around, but you don't always hear about them these days.
RNRU : One of the aspects of your playing that seems to be overlooked is your style of rhythm guitar. How important do you feel, as a guitarist, to be a great rhythm guitarist as well?
AP : Well, that's how I started off. I really like good rhythm playing. Sometimes the lead playing can be totally indulgent, but I really enjoy rhythm guitar. If you said to me, "I'm going to take away either your lead guitar playing or your rhythm guitar playing, what's it going to be?" Even though I'm noted as a lead guitar player, I'd probably say, "If you're going to take one or the other away, and I could never play lead, but I could play rhythm, I'd stick with that." I do enjoy playing lead, and I have a great tone, and it enables you to bear your soul. But the rhythm thing gets me.
RNRU : One of the identifiable aspects of your sound comes from the fact that throughout your career, you've played a '67 Gibson Flying V. What led you to making the V your guitar of choice over other models such as a Strat or Les Paul?
AP : Well, I didn't think too carefully about it at the time. The Flying V, around the late '60's, early 70's, was a guitar that no one really wanted. It was considered too whacky, too experimental. Everybody was familiar with the Fender Strat. That was almost like the industry standard. Gibson, the Les Paul, Eric Clapton was using the Les Paul, and that was considered the guitar for blues. Then there was this Flying V thing, and really they weren't selling. But I had always remembered Albert King playing one, and getting a phenomenal tone. I just thought, "That's an interesting guitar," and I just happened to be down in London, in a music store down there. The guy had 2 from 1967, in the cardboard boxes, sitting there. They'd been in the store for 5 years. They were absolutely brand spanking new from the factory. So I tried one out, and I was immediately hooked. I thought, "This is it." I bought the guitar, took it home, and I started to use it. I just connected with the shape. I was a little skinny kid at that time, and I could seem to be able to wrap myself around the guitar. With the fins on the thing, they have a very vibrant sound. Unlike a Les Paul, which has a thick, solid sound. These things really give a very vibrant sound, and I immediately noticed that it really sang out when I played lead. I made a couple of modifications over the years, put on some original PAF pickups from 1959 to fatten the sound up a little bit. But I've always stuck with the Flying V's. I even went back in time and bought a '58 and a '59, at a time when you could buy them and be affordable, because no one wanted them. (Laughs) That was a very different instrument though. Almost more akin to a Les Paul, with the neck and thicker body. The '67 V has been my mainstay, really, that style.